Power Weapons!

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Angelina Sinclair
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Power Weapons!

Post by Angelina Sinclair » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:20 pm

During Jezebel's campaign she discussed arming the police with technology to help them better meta-humans. In theory this sounds great! In practice it seems to be a nightmare! After a brief chat with Chy; Staff aren't sure which way to go with this. Some are against anything that nullifies powers completely while others feel it's the only way for police to combat meta humans. So they need more ideas and opinions and maybe some fresh perspective on the matter.

As for Jezebel's promise I don't want her to have developed such powerful technology (with the help of others of course) over the weekend and bam here we are with guns that can turn superman into a mouse! I would prefer it to be thoroughly RPed out. However nullifying powers isn't the only thing technology can or should do. Sure it's an "instant" fix to the meta human problem but to me that's just a cheap shot and we should take the long road in solving that problem. There can be power armors; technology that grants powers or heighten physical stats; entrapping technology; reality warping; etc etc. However, whatever technology is used to help "balance" things out for the Police department and other places; there needs to be a way to regulate this and that is where Staff is stumped at.

Could you imagine someone like Captain Strong wielding a gun that can slow down his opponents? Or how about some kind of blaster ray gauntlets. Though he was bad when he can only punch. Wait until he gets range! Just take any top tier super hero or villain and now imagine them with technology. Then you get into the the whole character sheet thing. If Strong has a super slow everything gun does it go on his sheet? Does it need re-approval? Is it temporary and one RP scene use? If not how long does he have it for? And yea.. I can see how this gets out of control fast.

So if anyone has any ideas feel free to pitch them! I'll try to think of some myself in the coming days.

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Butterfly of Doom
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Butterfly of Doom » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:27 pm

I would prefer power armor type deal, exoskeletons for the metahuman task force..maybe cyborg modification for DAGGER. That way they could do the job..but not stop Kira
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Talista Glas
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Talista Glas » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:38 pm

Enter <cool weapon based acronym that I will put together later>, an exclusively metahuman branch of the police department.
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Hannah DuMont
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Hannah DuMont » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:54 pm

Butterfly of Doom wrote:I would prefer power armor type deal, exoskeletons for the metahuman task force..maybe cyborg modification for DAGGER. That way they could do the job..but not stop Kira
I agree on this one. I am not just saying that so Suki can get cool armor either.
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Talista Glas » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:09 pm

Arctica wrote:
Butterfly of Doom wrote:I would prefer power armor type deal, exoskeletons for the metahuman task force..maybe cyborg modification for DAGGER. That way they could do the job..but not stop Kira
I agree on this one. I am not just saying that so Suki can get cool armor either.
Save up your fusion cores.
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Butterfly of Doom
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Butterfly of Doom » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:26 pm

I just don't want them suited for metas. Maybe only normal humans can use them? Sort of like Broken blade. To even the odds.
"The nerve of... Ugh!"- Celeste
"Our enemy is never as evil as we imagine." - Katyusha
"Utterly' is my favorite way to destroy something." - Alecta
"Turn your wounds into wisdom" - Anna
"..." - Eventide

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Chyleste
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Chyleste » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:28 pm

We have mentioned some ideas like force field guns that can enclose people in energy bubbles. Also power nullifying restraints like collars, cuffs and binders that prevent the captive from using their powers but can be destroyed by others etc.

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Hannah DuMont » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:37 pm

Power nullifying restraints are going to be a pain due to the wide variety of sources in the city. X-Men had the collars that could nullify their powers but they were all mutants. We have a wide assortment of characters with different power sources and reasons. That makes one particular restraint for everyone difficult to do.
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Butterfly of Doom
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Butterfly of Doom » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:48 pm

Arctica wrote:Power nullifying restraints are going to be a pain due to the wide variety of sources in the city. X-Men had the collars that could nullify their powers but they were all mutants. We have a wide assortment of characters with different power sources and reasons. That makes one particular restraint for everyone difficult to do.

Some things are going to be inherent even with power nullification. Many of Ragdoll's things are from being life fibers. .. A collar won't change her body makeup. I mean..shes a hero..but example
"The nerve of... Ugh!"- Celeste
"Our enemy is never as evil as we imagine." - Katyusha
"Utterly' is my favorite way to destroy something." - Alecta
"Turn your wounds into wisdom" - Anna
"..." - Eventide

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Chyleste
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Chyleste » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:51 pm

The problem is that we need to have some way to be able to restrain and hold prisoners in the jails. Again it goes back to making sure no one is unbeatable.

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Hannah DuMont » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:55 pm

Arctica's is achieved by her clans teachings and her sword. So nullification is difficult for her too. What about some kind of restraint that affects the nerves? Would that work against everyone?
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Chyleste
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Chyleste » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:12 pm

Yeah that could work. I did not try to figure out or explain how the restraints would nullify powers we just need something so that the cops can actually deal with things.

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Siphon
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Siphon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:33 pm

I am darn sure that Delilah would be happy to help with the Metahuman containment research :p. I would say it would have to be something that affects the nervous system, as in a way to route the synapses and make their brain work like a normal one. In other words even if you can lift 50 tons, your brain will believe that you are a normal person that can lift normal stuff, and therefore the muscles will act accordingly?? dunno to be honest I am pulling science right off my ass but that's a way in my mind that could work.

In the champions PnP universe usually what is used to contain metas is the use of neural dampeners, mixed with special restraints.
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Talista Glas » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:27 am

Consider first a manner in which to detect all metahuman abilities. If a standard can be set for discovering power levels etc, then a standard can be set for containment. This leads to the necessity of the creation of a device that can account for all possible detectable scenarios in order to nullify abilities. Certain individuals though, like Ragdoll or my character Adamant (super strong because born on a planet with much higher gravity), certain special accommodations may be necessary considering the RP. But it can be reasoned that if a technological standard can be set up to detect any and all metahuman states and potentials, that said technology could then be adapted to restraint devices.

Or just make all cells capable of holding the strongest known metahuman.
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Montyjack » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:09 am

At the moment, the police use plasma weapons which can cause damage to most metas. They have energy binders which again restrain metas, and there are metahuman cells in the police department at the moment. One of my characters has a weapon which fires a nanite round. This round if it hits launches billions and billions of knockout nanites, which unless the meta is encased in hermetically sealed armour, the nanites will crawl into the meta - they are the size of bacteria, and knock them out.

Bear this in mind that some of this stuff exists already.
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by LillianVickson » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:13 am

There are so many ways to do this.
I think we should keep it that way.

There should be at least half as many ways to suppress a power as there are powers. Conversely, (to borrow from the Champions PNP mindset) power suppression should be cheaper than the power.
Power suppression should also be prone to error:
"Okay boys, Chief says this one has light powers so bring the photon absorbing restraints"

Later..

"They aren't working?!? What do you mean it's 'Soul light'? What the heck is that?? - Magic?!? Damn, should have brought the Luck Drainers!"
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Mr. Strong » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:41 am

I think it can be safely assumed that the jail cells can hold metahumans using repurposed Shiva technology that is beyond human ability to reverse engineer and weaponize past that point. That's really just Plot-Induced Stupidity. The plot requires that metas can be held, and so they can be.

A world where the Special Crimes Unit can just handle 99% of metas though, sounds pretty dull. Just sayin'.

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Angelina Sinclair
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Angelina Sinclair » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:48 am

LillianVickson wrote:There are so many ways to do this.
I think we should keep it that way.

There should be at least half as many ways to suppress a power as there are powers. Conversely, (to borrow from the Champions PNP mindset) power suppression should be cheaper than the power.
Power suppression should also be prone to error:
I totally agree Lillian. There should be multiple different kinds of power nullifiers. We could either go by type of power (elemental, mind, physical, etc). Or maybe we can go by origin of power (magic, x-gene, an item, race, etc).
Montyjack wrote:At the moment, the police use plasma weapons which can cause damage to most metas. They have energy binders which again restrain metas, and there are metahuman cells in the police department at the moment. One of my characters has a weapon which fires a nanite round. This round if it hits launches billions and billions of knockout nanites, which unless the meta is encased in hermetically sealed armour, the nanites will crawl into the meta - they are the size of bacteria, and knock them out.

Bear this in mind that some of this stuff exists already.
It would good to get a list of technology that the police currently has. Though not to mix it with any technology that an individual cop has. Any technology that you assume the Police Department has should be accessable to all Police Officers regardless of their original power sets. This where one character could get very OP if they get the right combinations of tech and powers.
Talista Glas wrote:Consider first a manner in which to detect all metahuman abilities. If a standard can be set for discovering power levels etc, then a standard can be set for containment. This leads to the necessity of the creation of a device that can account for all possible detectable scenarios in order to nullify abilities. Certain individuals though, like Ragdoll or my character Adamant (super strong because born on a planet with much higher gravity), certain special accommodations may be necessary considering the RP. But it can be reasoned that if a technological standard can be set up to detect any and all metahuman states and potentials, that said technology could then be adapted to restraint devices.

Or just make all cells capable of holding the strongest known metahuman.
At the moment current events and story don't really call for a method of detecting metas. Shiva's methods are still fresh in people's minds and doing anything that (like a registry) can easily encourage the wrath of the Hero population.

Making cells that can hold the strongest known meta would be costly (ICly) and also not a one method fixes all kinda of deal. You do have metas with magnetic and/or metal powers. There are metas with matter manipulation as well.

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Mr. Strong » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:59 am

I think Blue mentioned some kind of Demolition Man solution. That'd work just fine for any character that isn't some kind of aquakinetic.

As for power detection...Image

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Angelina Sinclair
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Angelina Sinclair » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:01 am

Mr. Strong wrote:I think it can be safely assumed that the jail cells can hold metahumans using repurposed Shiva technology that is beyond human ability to reverse engineer and weaponize past that point. That's really just Plot-Induced Stupidity. The plot requires that metas can be held, and so they can be.

A world where the Special Crimes Unit can just handle 99% of metas though, sounds pretty dull. Just sayin'.
That's the other thing. I wouldn't want for this technology to spring up over night and I wouldn't want it to be able to handle everything at once. What I would like to see though is maybe restrict such technology to certain groups/factions that went through the RP process of obtaining said tech. For example if Millennium developed elemental weapons to sell to the government/Police Department. No one else should have the "resources/freedom" to just handout elemental weapons. We shouldn't see villain "Trigun" handling out elemental weapons to people to try and start mayhem.

No Trigun should first findout who makes said elemental weapons. Then goes and breaks into Millennium to steal some weapons or even blueprints on how to make it. Now after all that hard work he can start selling/handing elemental weapons. This kind of method I would love for how technology is produce and handed around. Only thing is I feel this will probably need regulating (aka staff keeping an eye on things) and I don't want to put more work into their hands.


The other thing I was thinking. Say Trigun does know how to make said elemental weapons because his origin story says so but he doesn't have a big multi-million dollar cooperation. A character with money could fund him and he could start making weapons and now becomes competition for Millennium. Only problem with this how do you regulate the legitimacy of this? Make money a power? List all the characters that are rich somewhere so people can know who to talk to for when they need an investment?

Jesus.. this feels complicated.. haha. All I want is for heroes to be arrested, made human and be fucked. :lol: :twisted:

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Mr. Strong » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:27 am

Well, like I said... We can say there is a wide-spectrum power suppression unit in the Jail Cells that keeps any superpower at bay. However, it's hooked straight to the Nuclear Power Plant up the road, because it requires so much power. Trying to turn that into a gun, it'd melt in your hands the second you switched it on.

This solves the problem of "We want imprisoned metas to be made human" but we don't want any asshole to be able to power-strip someone.

Anyone is free to develop tech and then apply for it to be approved (like any power) but "power dampening weapon" should be deployed like any other superpower.

Meaning: You don't fire it at someone, let it hit, and THEN say what it does. Before you fire it off, you say what it is, and how it works. You cannot declare after-the-fact that it was a special or unique attack.

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Montyjack » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:52 am

That's a good point. We need @bluephalkon to step in here I think
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Angelina Sinclair
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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Angelina Sinclair » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:32 am

Mr. Strong wrote:Well, like I said... We can say there is a wide-spectrum power suppression unit in the Jail Cells that keeps any superpower at bay. However, it's hooked straight to the Nuclear Power Plant up the road, because it requires so much power. Trying to turn that into a gun, it'd melt in your hands the second you switched it on.

This solves the problem of "We want imprisoned metas to be made human" but we don't want any asshole to be able to power-strip someone.
Stripping powers and dampening/restricting then are two different things. One is permanent while the other is temporary.

The other problem with just a cell that dampens powers is what do you use when you need to move them out or to another spot like say meeting their lawyer or going to court. A full fledge prison would have all lot of places they can move around in as well for also sorts of recreational activities.

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Butterfly of Doom » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:48 am

Well (again with the he Ragdoll example) power dampeners would not remove her shapeshifting, healing, durability or stretching. But, for plot reasons , so as to not be an ooc jackhole, they would restrict them. She could stretch through the 10x 10 cell. But normally, she can stretch to 100 feet. (Hell her power to do so is based on mr fantastic whose limit is 1,500 feet. not kidding).

The cells and equipment might not do the job 100% but it is upon the players, both bad guys, and good guys to loot at the story. Look at plot. Look at what would make the best story. Alicia can make portals.. shes slippery too. But for plot reasons.. oops someone accidently scratched a rune into a wall just making their name. That rune blocks faerie transportation magic. Does it make ooc sense? No. Would it be repeated? depends on story. Sometimes both sides have to take a hit to their powers for better long term story telling. And we as players have to show it by example.

For anyone with an issue on that.. in comics and shows..powers change and limits move based on plot and need. Call it the Worf Factor or plot induced deus ex machina. Mister fantastic once padded heros under a billion ton mountain..passed out afterwards..but in an every day situation? He would have been far less useful. The reverse applies. The Joker stays in Arkham.. for various nonsensical reasons until plot demands he get out. otherwise, why would the wire controlling the cell door in suicide squad: assault on arkham even be Inside an INTERNAL wall?
"The nerve of... Ugh!"- Celeste
"Our enemy is never as evil as we imagine." - Katyusha
"Utterly' is my favorite way to destroy something." - Alecta
"Turn your wounds into wisdom" - Anna
"..." - Eventide

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Re: Power Weapons!

Post by Mr. Strong » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:05 am

Collars then, like on Genosha.

The ability to nullify powers in comics is exceedingly rare. I usually only see Kryptonians subjected to it with any sort of frequency in DC, and then and otherwise it's just to fit the purpose of a particular story. Guns that shut off powers are rare-to-nonexistent (again, I can only recollect a gun that was made on New Krypton just to execute Kryptonians... and it had a limited effect time.)

We should take our cues from that. If "Shut off mutant power beam" was easy, then there'd be no mutants. Hell, I don't even think it was commonplace (apart from collars) in Bishop's Alternate Future. X3 is an exception... but it was an exceptionally shitty movie.

I think a few people having weapons that are specifically designed to counter a single character, but with no guarantee of success, might make sense. OR a squad like DAGGER that would be trained to handle them (Sort of like Squad K that was a bunch of hard-asses who's only job was to fight Superman if necessary)

If you're defeated and taken prisoner, it should be assumed and commonly agreed upon that your captor can render you powerless until you escape or are freed. "Because Reasons" is sufficient for this, unless you need a better explanation from your captor.

Just bear in mind... Shit like JLA: Tower of Babel. These were Batman's best methods to defeat the JLA and none of them involved switching off powers, because even Super-Genius Batman couldn't figure out how to do it. His methods all sucked, btw. ("I need something to deal with an out of control Superman ... I know... hit him with this, which'll put him into total agony AND boost his powers. I'm sure he won't flail around and wreck shit... "I'll make Green Lantern blind. That'll work... he can't just order his ring to feed radar data directly into his optic nerve, or directly into his brain." --Which only worked because pre-ION Kyle Rayner was a dipshit)

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